Thursday, June 11, 2009

Obama and the Holy Qur'an

(Onenewsnow.com) Jim Brown

A Christian writer says President Obama's recent speech in Cairo praising Islam is further evidence the American president has a "low view" of biblical Christianity.

Robert Knight, a senior writer for Coral Ridge Ministries, has written a column titled "Obama Nation's Low View of Christianity." Knight says he wrote the column as a service to everyone who wants thorough documentation -- not just bits and pieces -- of President Obama's statements distorting Christianity.

Knight argues that the most disturbing thing President Obama said in his Cairo speech was that the Middle East was the first place where Islam was "revealed."

"That word 'revealed' is very important," Knight explains. "It means an unveiling, and it means a divinely-inspired unveiling -- which would indicate that the president is saying the Koran is a holy book. In fact, he referred to the Koran several times as the 'Holy Koran.'"

Such a perspective from their elected chief executive, says Knight, should concern Bible-believing Christians.

"If you're a Christian, you don't regard the Koran as a holy book of any sort," he states. "You regard it as springing out of the Old Testament, because it incorporates a lot of the Torah, as does the Christian Bible -- but then it goes off into a false religion."

Knight says to call the Koran a holy book goes beyond diplomacy, yet Obama understood the significance of what he was saying because "of all people, he knows the power of words." However, Knight points out that most of the press in the United States missed or ignored the remark.

8 comments:

arah said...

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The holy Qur'an

The Qur’an[1] (Arabic: القرآن‎ al-qur’ān, literally “the recitation”; also sometimes transliterated as Quran, Qur’ān, Koran, Alcoran or Al-Qur’ān) is the central religious text of Islam. Muslims believe the Qur’an to be the book of divine guidance and direction for mankind, and consider the original Arabic text to be the final revelation of God.[2][3][4][5]

Islam mean submission to the will of One True God, the Almighty Creator. Submission to the One Almighty Creator is the main teaching of all prophets including Abraham. Moses and Jesus.

The commandments by Almighty God to Moses and the Israel in Deut 10:12-13

12 And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to observe the LORD's commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?

Deuteronomy 6:4-9
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. [a] 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

The same One God was the greatest commandment by Jesus also to Israel.

"Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).

The coming of Muhammad with the same mission but for all mankind was predicted and foretold in the OT and NT

Al A'raf 7:157
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in the Taurat and the Injil..."

The Lord said to me [Moses]: ‘What they say is good. I will raise up for them a Prophet like you among their brothers; I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My Name, I will Myself call him to account.’ (Deuteronomy, 18.17-9)

Al Saff 61:6
"...Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'O children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Taurat (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of an apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad' "

But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the ‘Paraklit’ will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment. (John, 16:7-8)

When Paraklit comes - the Spirit of truth - who comes from the Father, he will testify about me. (John, 15.26)

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking what is mine and making it known to you. (John, 16.12-14)

I will not speak with you much longer, for the Prince of this world is coming. And I posses nothing of him. (John, 14.30)

However the ignorant or the arrogant always disagree. That the Spirit of Truth is not the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit have been around even before the birth of Jesus.

http://www.thewaytotruth.org/prophetmuhammad/proofs.html

Allah knows best.

Aaron said...

Arah,

Thank you for your thoughts and comments. I have responded below by putting your comments in bold and my responses underneath.

The coming of Muhammad with the same mission but for all mankind was predicted and foretold in the OT and NT

First, I find it interesting when Muslims attempt to use the Bible to support Islam, especially since according to Muslims I have spoken with the Bible has been corrupted. Do you believe the Bible has been corrupted? If you do, how can you trust these passages you quote and use them to support your position? If not, why not believe the words of Jesus and become a Christian?

Al A'raf 7:157 "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in the Taurat and the Injil..."

I realize the Qur'an makes the claim that Muhammad can be found in both the OT and NT. However, this in itself proves nothing. Similar claims can be found in other religions as well. You also have to be careful not to use the Qur'an to prove the Qur'an as this would be circular reasoning or question begging. Finally, rather than offer up assertions and proof texts as you do below, I would encourage you to present arguments and reasons which support your position.

The Lord said to me [Moses]: ‘What they say is good. I will raise up for them a Prophet like you among their brothers; I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him...(Deuteronomy, 18.17-9)

This verse is referring to Jesus, not Muhammad. There are 3 important similarities between Moses and Jesus which show Jesus was the Prophet to come, not Muhammad:

1. Moses and Jesus were Both Mediators of a Covenant. Moses was given the Law and served as a mediator between God and the Jews. According to Hebrews 9:15 Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, as spoken of in Jer. 31:31-34 and Ezekial 36:24-27. Muhammad mediated no covenant.

2. Moses and Jesus Both Knew God Face-to Face. God spoke to Moses directly as a friend (Ex. 33:11). This also seems to be confirmed in Sura 4:164. Likewise, Jesus knew God the Father personally (John 6:46, 7:29). Muhammad did not know God in this personal way.

3. Moses and Jesus Both Performed Great Signs and Wonders. Moses performed many miracles such as the ten plagues and parting of the Red Sea. Jesus likewise had power over the sea (Matt. 8:26-27). When Jesus fed the five thousand the people immediately recognized Him as the prophet who was to come (John 6:14). Muhammad could do no miracles even according to the Qur'an (Sura 28:48).

Furthermore, the Bible itself applies this passage from Deuteronomy to Jesus in Acts 3:22 and 7:37.

Regarding the verses in John referring to the "Comforter" or "Paracletos," these passages are great examples of Muslims taking verses out of context in order to read their own theology into the Bible.

First, and most obvious, Jesus Himself identifies who the Comforter is in John 14:26: the Holy Spirit! This is enough to refute your entire interpretation.

Second, Jesus clearly says He will give His disciples another comforter (John 14:26, 16:7). This could not be Muhammad since he did not appear until six centuries later. But Jesus did give the disciples the Holy Spirit (John 20:22-23).

Third, Jesus said this Comforter would be with His disciples forever (John 14:16). Muhammad died and was buried but the Holy Spirit continues to live in all Christians around the world.

Aaron said...

...continued from previous post...

I will not speak with you much longer, for the Prince of this world is coming. And I posses nothing of him. (John, 14.30)

I certainly hope you are not using this Scripture to refer to Muhammad. Jesus is talking about the devil, the prince of this world, unless you want to argue that Muhammad now stands condemned! (John 16:11)

However the ignorant or the arrogant always disagree. That the Spirit of Truth is not the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit have been around even before the birth of Jesus.

You are resorting to ad-hominem fallacies and name-calling. The Holy Spirit may have been present in the world before this time but He was now poured out into the hearts of believers in a new way. Jesus specifically said He would send the Helper to His disciples (John 16:7) and then told them to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit was poured out on them (Acts 1:4-5). Again, this obviously could not be Muhammad.

Here is a site you may be interested in:
www.answering-islam.org

Jesus Knows Best!

arah said...

Dear Aaron,

Thank you for your reply.

We Muslim believed that Almighty God our Creator is so loving, most gracious and most merciful. He sent messengers and the prophets to guide to all mankind.

# 3:49 (Y. Ali) "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

# 3:50 (Y. Ali) "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

# 3:51 (Y. Ali) "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"

# 3:52 (Y. Ali) When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

Do you believe the bible is corrupted? We believed the bible was corrupted and we have ample proof to it, however there are certain verses in the Bible which is consistant in the OT, NT and FT. Those words of Almighty Creator does not change.

In the OT, NT and FT all stated that the is Only One God.

The bible was corrupted because Paul or Saul the murderer wrote that Jesus is God or Son of God or a part of the Trinity which contradicted with the OT and FT.

To be continued

arah said...

Part 2
Aaron wrote:
"This verse is referring to Jesus, not Muhammad. There are 3 important
similarities between Moses and Jesus which show Jesus was the Prophet
to come, not Muhammad..."

Before I proceed, do you agree with me now that Jesus is a prophet not God?

Anyhow, many Christian will always said that Jesus is prophet, Jesus
is also the God, Jesus is the Son and Jesus is also the Father which
is very contradicting and confused.

"I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."Deuteronomy 18:18

There are many verses in the Old Testament that predict the coming of Jesus (pbuh). This one, however, is not one of them. This can be clearly seen from the following :

a) Like unto moses

Muslims believe in all of the previous prophets. They make no
distinction between them, nor do they place one above the others in
piety. However, they are all human, and as humans they differ from one another in their characteristics. Let us compare these characteristics:

1) Both Christians and Muslims agree that both Moses and Muhammad
(pbut) had fathers and mothers. They both also believe that Jesus
(pbuh) had only a mother and no father. Therefore, Muhammad is like
Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

2) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) married and begat children. Jesus
(pbuh) never married nor had any offspring. Therefore, Muhammad is
like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

3) Moses (pbuh) was accepted by the Jews and to this day, as a nation,they accept him as their prophet. Muhammad (pbuh) was accepted by his people, and as a nation, over one billion Muslims around the world accept him as the prophet of Allah. Jesus (pbuh), however, was rejected by his people (the Jews) as stated in the Christian's own Bible: "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not"
(John 1:11) Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike
Moses.

Please visit this site for more
http://www.islamawareness.net/Mib/ch6_7.html

Dan Grossenbach said...

Arah,

It's great to have a lively debate going on the blog. Thanks for your respectful exchange of ideas. Your initial reply doesn't have anything to do with Obama's endorsement of Islam (the post you responded to), but is interesting anyway. I'm really curious to hear what you have to say in response to the questions posed to you. Can you please respond to Aaron's arguments?

I don't believe Aaron ever said Allah wasn't "so loving, most gracious and most merciful" so I'm not sure what this has to do with the issue at hand. Also, you believe the NT is corrupted, but use verses from it to support your case for Islam. Why is that? And what convinces you of corruption?

I'll check out your blog to learn more and hope you can answer these tough questions.

Aaron said...

Arah,

Thank you again for your thoughts and response. I am enjoying the dialogue and hope you are as well.

First, as Dan pointed out, I don't think you adequately addressed the points and questions I raised:

1. You did not directly interact with my argument that the prophet to come is Jesus, not Muhammad.

2. You did not address my arguments that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, not Muhammad

3. You did not address my point that the prince of this world is the devil, not Muhammad.

I have placed your comments in bold below with my responses underneath.

Do you believe the bible is corrupted?

I believe there have been minor textual variants which have crept into the text due to transmission and recopying, but this is where the science of textual criticism comes into play. Have you studied textual criticism? The Bible has certainly not been corrupted to the extent that Muslims (or Mormons) claim and in light of the tremendous evidence for the reliability of the Old and New Testament texts it seems the burden of proof is on you to show otherwise. In addition, it seems Muhammad trusted both the OT and NT.

Sura 5:46 states, "How will they make you their judge seeing they have the Tawraat, wherein is Allah's judgment, then afterwards turn their backs." This clearly says the Jews have the Tawraat, or OT, during the time of Muhammad and further describes it as a "guidance and light" (Sura 5:47).

Likewise, Sura 5:71 states, "Say, O People of the Scripture. You have no ground to stand on unless you stand fast by the Tawraat and the Injil and what has been sent down to you from your Lord." This verse would make no sense unless Christians and Jews possessed both the OT and NT during Muhammad's time. This sura tells the people of the Scripture to stand fast on the OT and NT which they wouldn't be able to do unless they first possessed it.

It seems the Qur'an, Allah, and Muhammad trusted the OT and NT. Why don't you?

We believed the bible was corrupted and we have ample proof to it...

I am more than willing to look at the proof you have, please do share! In addition, are you willing to apply this same criteria to the Qur'an? What if I can show you that the Qur'an is corrupt and should not be trusted?

...however there are certain verses in the Bible which is consistant in the OT, NT and FT. Those words of Almighty Creator does not change.

If I understand you right, it seems any verse in the Bible that is consistent with the Qur'an is textually pure. Is this your only criteria for corruption? When exactly was the Bible changed and where? Was it corrupted before Muhammad or after? If before, why does it seem Muhammad relied on both the OT and NT? If after, there is plenty of evidence to show the Bible during Muhammad's time is the same we have today.

You cannot pick and choose what parts of the Bible you want to use unless you can provide some objective criteria by which you are able to distinguish the pure verses from the corrupt ones. It seems your position is totally arbitrary and self serving.

In the OT, NT and FT all stated that the is Only One God.

Yes, there is only one God. This is what Christianity, Judaism, and Islam teaches. I have found that most Muslims I encounter misunderstand the doctrine of the Trinity and therefore attempt to accuse Christians of polytheism.

The bible was corrupted because Paul or Saul the murderer wrote that Jesus is God or Son of God or a part of the Trinity which contradicted with the OT and FT.

This is an assertion, not an argument. Jesus is God, the Son of God, and He made this claim for Himself which is why it was repeated by His followers. Paul is not the only one who claimed this. Where is your evidence for these assertions? The doctrine of the Trinity in no way contradicts the OT but simply reveals what is not explicit in the OT.

...continued in next post...

Aaron said...

...continued from previous post...

Before I proceed, do you agree with me now that Jesus is a prophet not God?

These two titles are not mutually exclusive. Jesus was a prophet but He was not primarily a prophet. He is much more than that: He is God. A prophet is someone who reveals God to us and speaks the words of God, making Christ the last and greatest prophet being God Himself!

Anyhow, many Christian will always said that Jesus is prophet, Jesus is also the God, Jesus is the Son and Jesus is also the Father which is very contradicting and confused.

No orthodox Christian claims that Jesus is the Father. This would be Modalism, not Trinitarianism. I understand how this could be very confusing. I would encourage you to read some more on Christian theology. Have you read any books that argue against your point of view?

1) Both Christians and Muslims agree that both Moses and Muhammad
(pbut) had fathers and mothers. They both also believe that Jesus
(pbuh) had only a mother and no father. Therefore, Muhammad is like
Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

2) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) married and begat children. Jesus
(pbuh) never married nor had any offspring. Therefore, Muhammad is
like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

3) Moses (pbuh) was accepted by the Jews and to this day, as a nation,they accept him as their prophet. Muhammad (pbuh) was accepted by his people, and as a nation, over one billion Muslims around the world accept him as the prophet of Allah. Jesus (pbuh), however, was rejected by his people (the Jews) as stated in the Christian's own Bible: "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not" (John 1:11) Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike
Moses.


First, I want to point out that you did not respond to the similarities I presented between Moses and Jesus. This is extremely important since Deuteronomy 34:10-11 tells us what we should be looking for in this future prophet: "Since that time no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, for all the signs and wonders which the LORD sent him to perform in the land of Egypt against Pharaoh, all his servants, and all his land."

This verse emphasizes the uniqueness of the prophethood of Moses. It makes direct reference to the fact that Moses knew God face to face and that He performed miracles. This only applies to Jesus, not Muhammad (which I argued for in my last post). In addition, you did not respond to the fact that the NT itself tells us that Jesus was the prophet Moses spoke about (as I mentioned again last post).

Finally, while I appreciate your willingness to engage this topic Arah, your line of argumentation here is completely weak and unconvincing. You presented 3 similarities between Moses and Muhammad: Moses and Muhammad both had parents, Moses and Muhammad both married and had children, and Moses and Muhammad were both accepted by their people.

These similarities are entirely superficial, arbitrary, and self-serving. These similarities could be found between nearly anyone! In fact, I could just as easily argue that it is Joseph Smith who was the prophet to come. After all, Moses and Joseph Smith both had parents, Moses and Joseph Smith both married and had children, and Moses and Joseph Smith were both accepted by their people. Perhaps you should be Mormon and not Muslim.

Thank you again Arah for your willingness to dialogue, looking forward to your response.